lit (evergreenness ranking)lit (evergreenness ranking)
Big update here is that old items can be zapped and boosted (or re-lit) back into ranking high in lit, what we formerly called hot. Items in lit are ranked based on when they receive "investment" (zaps, boost, etc), not when they are created. New investment on an old item will cause the item to move up in lit ranking and it will compete with other items receiving investment around the same time.
We've talked a lot about evergreenness since this post: #331942. lit ranking is a stab at that. h/t @Undisciplined and @SimpleStacker
I'm not sure how this will shake out, but we have an awesome back catalog with lots of stuff people haven't seen. Hopefully valuable things get rediscovered as often as they deserve to.
X sats reflects all positive investmentX sats reflects all positive investment
Before, the sats on a post only reflected zaps. Now it reflects zaps+cost+boost. e.g. if it costs 30 sats to post and I boost 30 sats and someone zaps me 40 sats, my post will show 100 sats. You can view the breakdown by hovering over the sats or clicking on details (which got a makeover) by clicking ....
You can glance at a post and say "X sats were invested in this." h/t @Scoresby
All of these - zaps, boost, cost - contribute to ranking equally, and should make reasoning about sat filters easier. h/t @Undisciplined
downzaps no longer have 3x the power of zapsdownzaps no longer have 3x the power of zaps
boost=zaps=downzaps=cost in terms of ranking. h/t butthole
jobs were brought up to speed with other site mechanicsjobs were brought up to speed with other site mechanics
Jobs, posts in the ~jobs territory, work like other posts on the site now. They have lit rank and they can be boosted onto the frontpage like any other kind of post.
references to zaprank were replaced with satsreferences to zaprank were replaced with sats
sats is a more familiar term for what zaprank evolved to mean: rank by economic weight. Also, this sat ranking considers the cumulative economic weight of an item's replies too, their cost, zaps, and boost, and new investment in replies can cause their thread to get re-lit. h/t @Undisciplined
search refinementssearch refinements
Search and related posts should provide marginally better results, and it should be easier to distinguish one item from another in search. Our search has always kind of sucked, but the tooling has improved a lot recently so I should be able to make it pretty darn good in short order.
Oh, and I also renamed recent -> new. When I change hot -> lit, I figured what the heck.
Happy Valentine's day!
This solves the evergreen problem completely, without awkward workarounds. Brilliant.
It’s a power unique to sats I think.
@simplestacker came up with the simple form that made it worth doing.
Did anything change with how zappers are rewarded?
Nope. I'm open to ideas but I probably won't wrench on rewards until I'm ready to give each territory its own rewards pool.
Maybe replace zapping top posts early with some measure of how much more Lit your zaps made posts.
zapping lit posts early rather than new/top posts early makes sense.
other realities to consider:
I'm thinking that since Lit has a decay function built in, the early part isn't as important.
Generally, zapping something early will correspond to moving it up more Lit ranks. This also gets more directly at the reason early zapping was rewarded, which was making good content more visible.
What you'd probably need to track is the highest Lit rank an item achieved for the day and reward people for their contributions towards moving items towards the top.
That makes sense, we'd measure daily lit deltas.
Nice work! Maybe the 'sats' label on posts/comments should look different when the value is the same as the cost. Like, italics, bold, in brackets, or whatever... not really sure about that part.
This is really cool! I'm very excited to see who this changes the front page over time.
Magnificent!
Excellent work, team.
Man, was weird the first time I left a comment and instantly saw sats on it like someone had zapped me in a microsecond. But yeah, seeing that total number makes a lot of sense.
Haha, I thought we just had a bot trying to zap everything early.
😃
What is Stacker News?
It is a social media platform intentionally created to enable a P2P V4V BTC denominated community.
Originally Stacker News (SN) custodyed sats on behalf of participants but the threat of government regulatory prosecution on the pretext of money transmitter forced a move away from the custody of sats by the platform to the platform enabling participants to send sats via their wallets.
To achieve this participants need to attach wallets to both send and receive sats.
Where participants do not or cannot attach LN wallets transactions will often default to Cowboy Credits.
This change was a compromise forced by the threat of government prosecution.
The difficulty of attaching both sending and receiving wallets is moderate- it takes some effort and newbie or non tech people may struggle with it, but most competent Bitcoiners can succeed in attaching wallets and thus enabling sats denominated P2P transactions.
But a number of Stackers have chosen not to attach wallets- in particular sending wallets which enable you to send sats into the SN community.
Very few have attached just a sending wallet- many have attach just a receiving wallet.
Those who only attach a receiving wallet can receive sats from others but cannot send sats into the community. They may feel that as content providers they have no need or obligation to send sats into and within the SN community. I disagree.
Where these receive but not send (horse but no gun) Stackers proclaim to be Bitcoiners but refuse to enable a sending wallet they are demonstrably hypocrits. They claim they want to build and grow the BTC LN MoE network but they cannot be bothered contributing toward that growth by attaching a sending wallet and demonstrating they are not just talking, but are also walking and supporting a sats denominated platform.
If we do not use the LN wherever and whenever we can it will not grow and develop.
Some claim it is too hard to attach wallets- its too hard on their self custody nodes or wallets- this just highlights how much work the LN still needs before it is capable of anything approaching 100% reliable MoE capability.
But the best way to grow and strengthen the LN is it use it – despite its remaining flaws and glitches.
When wallets are supported by people using them they receives transaction fees and can develop liquidity and systems further.
When LN wallets are not used the LN decays- it does not have the usage and fees income to grow.
So when self proclaimed advocates for BTC and LN refuse to attach wallets (especially sending wallets) I see hypocrit.
I will continue to see hypocrit until and unless someone can explain why I should not.
Calling me a Nazi, trolling and making fun of me crudely seeking to avoid the issues I raise will not stop me from asking why are you claiming to be a Bitcoiner but refusing to attach wallets and use the LN here where we can help it grow.
Now some are deliberately concealing their wallet status, as if this is about a right to privacy.
Concealing your wallet status means nobody else can verify whether or not you are serious about using BTC LN, or whether you are just an all talk no walk hypocrit.
Do not trust- verify.
What about this fundamental principle do they not understand?
And then they talk about 'content' being more important than whether or not you have attached wallets - in this context the intentional lack of attached wallets undermines your credibility as your actions do not match your words.
Your submitted content may be great, but you as someone claiming to be a serious Bitcoiner are undermining your credibility and the credibility of your content by being a hypocrit.
Your content, is tainted by your verifiable hypocrisy.
SNs needs both good content providers and those who pay for that content if it is succeed.
I am more in the latter group than the former but both are required overall or the model does not work.
So as a net contributor of sats and thus a net consumer of content I object where content providers refuse to engage in the P2P V4V ethos by refusing to attach both sending and receiving wallets and I will both withhold my contribution of sats and sometimes downvote in response.
V4V needs to work reciprocally or it will not work at all.
The content providers need net sats contributors/content consumers who send sats into the platform, or the entire platform fails.
And here I thought that hot -> lit was a cosmetic change. I should have known better!
It's 🔥
search engine is still by far not relevant. Almost impossible to find something using SN search feature. I did several tests, with exact title of a post and none found.
So I give up using SN search.
i have found many more interesting things via "similar posts" underneath a post than thru the SN search engine;
yeah that's true! I notice that too.
very interesting.
Fair, I think matches are still too fuzzy. As I said it’s marginally better (in a narrow domain).
how much of the database permissions must I beg before it becomes quicker to social my way into the "private" dev chat?
What?
context maintenance difficult when you have this many conversations going simultaneously, @k00b ; have you considered muting my SN nym, so you benefit from "let's let money moderate" more than the least proficient or most-DDoSed community members?
don't get me wrong, it is admirable to both use and cope with your project!
what's your point?
I was just informing k00b about search engine results. Nothing else.
why-our complaint must'as been
archiv .edsatis
^I?ok clunker, now you can STFU
Admirable or not it’s useful. SN is the people here.
For exact matches, did you try using quotation marks?
I just want to search simple terms, not making complex SQL requests...
I still don't like this; not gonna bother taking it to GitHub discussions, nor socialing my way into any dev slackalike, for I spark discord by merely listening, maybe;
is "little L2" a dirty phrase in the conversation space spanned by ~dev ~design and ~meta?
Does this mean someone could strategically re-lit strong old posts during slow days to gain visibility?
Curious how this changes timing strategies.
yes
This definitely incentivizes stronger posting and more serious writing. Very cool!
As someone still learning SN mechanics, this change makes things clearer.
So ranking is now purely about sats invested, not timing?
That seems more aligned with long-term value.
both
how often do randos complain that you have neither hat nor horse?
Based on timing of the sats invested, not timing of the post.
For the lolz, beautiful
https://blockdyor.com/stacker-news-review/
by @blockdyor
Could be a good concept introduced