This is big…. Anthropic was getting a lot of money from the Federal Government for Claude and now it’s over. Anthropic is going to have an interesting time raising money since they chose to cut themselves off from massive revenue streams. The Pentagon only asked for the ability to utilize Claude within law abiding guidelines and Anthropic said no.
They will now how to answer to investors about that.
From Palmer Lucky:
Do you believe in democracy? Should our military be regulated by our elected leaders, or corporate executives? Seemingly innocuous terms from the latter like "You cannot target innocent civilians" are actually moral minefields that lever differences of cultural tradition into massive control.
Who is a civilian and not? What makes them innocent or not? What does it mean for them to be a "target" vs collateral damage? Existing policy and law has very clear answers for these questions, but unelected corporations managing profits and PR will often have a very different answer.
Imagine if a missile company tried to enforce the above policy, that their product cannot be used to target innocent civilians, that they can shut off access if elected leaders decide to break those terms. Sounds, good, right? Not really - in addition to the value judgement problems I list above, you also have to account for questions like:
-What level of information, classified and otherwise, does the corporation receive that would allow them to make these determinations? How much leverage would they have to demand more?
-What if an elected President merely threatens a dictator with using our weapons in a certain way, ala Madman Theory/MAD? Is the threat seen as empty because the dictator knows the corporate executives will cut off the military? Is the threat enough to trigger the cutoff? How might either of those determinations vary if the current corporate executive happens to like the dictator or dislike the President?
-At what level of confidence does the cutoff trigger, both in writing and in reality?
The fact that this is a debate over AI does not change the underlying calculus. The same problems apply to definitions and use of ethically fraught but important capabilities like surveillance systems or autonomous weapons. It is easy to say "But they will have cutouts to operate with autonomous systems for defensive use!", but you immediately get into the same issues and more - what is autonomous? What is defensive? What about defending an asset during an offensive action, or parking a carrier group off the coast of a nation that considers us to be offensive?
At the end of the day, you have to believe that the American experiment is still ongoing, that people have the right to elect and unelect the authorities making these decisions, that our imperfect constitutional republic is still good enough to run a country without outsourcing the real levers of power to billionaires and corpos and their shadow advisors. I still believe.
And that is why "bro just agree the AI won't be involved in autonomous weapons or mass surveillance why can't you agree it is so simple please bro" is an untenable position that the United States cannot possibly accept.
This is the exact issue that @DarrelXero does not seem to get. Anthropic thought that with a PR stunt they could get the Pentagon to agree to their terrible terms and the Pentagon called the bluff. Now that they lost all Federal Government contracts the shareholders are going to be pissed because all of the AI companies are bleeding money at absurd levels.
Plus getting cut off from Genesis would be so so so horrible for the company it alone could cause it to implode.
Demands for Anthropic’s technology is extreme. They don’t need the fascist regime who will be kicked out in a few months, in order to succeed.
Seems you don't know how fascism works
Let me guess, you believe Joe Biden was president too?
It is funny when people claim Trump doesn't follow the laws/courts and is a dictator who will never give up power. And then tell us that vote will kick him out and that the Democrats are gonna beat him. You can't reason with illogical people.
They are trying as hard as they can to rig the election, but so far it is backfiring on them. The pipe dream of sending armed thugs to terrorize cities that tend to vote Democrat, in the hopes that it will cause an armed conflict and provide pretext for invoking the Insurrection Act, which can be used to delay elections, is also failing.
Congress mandated that the Epstein files be fully released. That has not happened. That is a violation of the law. Are you claiming it isn't? One example of several dozen.
Makes perfect sense they'd do it now, not in 2020/21... when literally every requirement for the Insurrection wase met, and Trump literally gave the required dispersal address before Washington was locked down by the military for months and every deep state media outlet screamed "insurrection" as if they were trying to warn their operatives as to what actually happened behind the scenes.
Absolutely zero chance that 2020 was a sting operation and and they installed an obviously fake president to eat the economic fallout of the paper-over and lay narrative traps
Meanwhile every low-IQ behind-the-times normie is clamoring for Epstein info that was laid out by Q and its down stream conspiracy theorists in 2017, long before normies ever heard of him, and his was arrest under Trump v1.
How many coincidences before its mathematically impossible?
The left created Trump. He was inevitable.
It is wild to watch the riots/protests and how much "flexibility" people have mentally about it all. It is funny how when I was a kid a Republican tried to give immigrants a pass but the Democrats weren't gonna have it. Then the Democrats ran on border security but after Trump started doing stuff they became open borders.
Its all about power. At this point this is the only way I can perceive that both sides work. One side is just unashamed of it.
When the thugs are working for a democrat, will you still complain? When they are beating and killing people you find repugnant will you speak up? When it's a state banning abortion or enforcing some law you find immoral will you defend that state's right to stick up the middle finger to the feds?
Psyops are really breaking the dumbs
They're a TDS lunatic, bad faith interlocutor, and very low IQ. Second easiest mute ever on this board. #1437135
Wait until the government comes for you with AI tools, unshackled or classified ones with zero restrictions even if you're a US citizen.
That's a totally different perspective.
That adds nothing to the conversation, in any context, whatsoever.
The tools exist, period.
If they are as powerful as people believe, it doesn't matter who has them, government or non.
If the government cannot be constrained, then no virtue signaling is going to stop them.
These are just few of the many reasons this whole conversation is an obvious psyop: #1444326
I don't want to welcome a world where any government... Has unlimited ability, far beyond what exists today, to target their own citizens even if those rights being targeted are constitutionally protected.
How long would it take... For a government with zero morals or ethics to crush bitcoin? Or try to?
If its not the Republicans then its the democrats and politics doesn't make it right
Want in one hand and shit in the other, what anyone wants is irrelevant.
The only limit on the government is... government. Be that the shadow state, or other state-level rivals, power vacuums get filled. There is no limit to ability because there is no power vacuum. There is always an apex force.
Governments are a thing, they have no morals or ethics. They operate only legitimacy against the shadow state or rivals.
Legitimacy relies upon the population as a force multiplier, that's the closest we get to market dynamics in matters of state, competition for legitimacy
There's probably a script at the NSA that could do it in a few blocks already, fortunately they created it to replace fiats dying legitimacy.
Politics are the scripted theater to communicate decisions that have already been made, narrative and optics that make the decisions appear legitimate
This is not what the united states was based upon.
If they created it and by extension promote it... Then why the crackdown? Why the KYC? Or extremely complex tax compliance?
Or for that matter why the memecoins or shitcoining?
The US has 3 branches of government, a constitution, and is supposed to be by and for the people politics does not give the powerful the excuse to screw over the powerless.
Omg I’m dying laughing 😂 he is trying so hard to twist words and thought to fit the narrative he concocted when there is nothing there 😂
As someone who works on the most bipartisan committee in Congresss (Zoe Lofgren has even stated it on the record) this guy is just wildin out!
fwiw this fued stinks of psyop, totally scripted, there's absolutely zero chance it's actually about what everyone thinks its about.
popcorn ready.
Actually this is the kinda stuff that is pretty common on The Hill. A company will try to pivot and make a statement to get better terms and more often than not the government has folded. This Admin doesn’t and has been clear it will cut you off. It’s much more damming and damaging for Anthropic than it is for the whole government.
There wouldn't be this level of spectacle unless they had a reason for wanting people to discuss it. There's another shoe or three to drop.
and here... we... gooooo
The current administration has demonstrated its willingness to ignore the laws, so Anthropic - like the courts - are taking the correct stance and not trusting them.
Umm I guess I’m missing something because the Admin has followed the courts rulings time and time again?
Dude, can you explain what it is you do? You put yourself out in other threads as someone who "is on the ground in Washington or Congress" but everything you post is hard slanted right. Here you say "all they wanted was to use Claude within law abiding guidelines" but it has been WIDELY reported that the issue was US citizen surveillance and autonomous weapons systems. Without being indelicate you sound like a lying asshole. Can you clarify it for me?
He is a republican staffer. Feel free to disagree with him, as I have, but there isn't anything he said that indicates he's a liar
"The Pentagon only asked for the ability to utilize Claude within law abiding guidelines and Anthropic said no."
By any estimation, that's a lie.
I'm guessing you know that the word "lawful" has a wide range of meaning and interpretation, and I don't have to tell you that.
According to this administration "lawful" is anything the fuck they want to do.
Exactly
They target political opponents, silence dissent, create double standards constantly and do things to enrich themselves (memecoins) while providing next to zero transparency they are 1984 incarnate.
Right which is why what any side claims in public as to their reasons is irrelevant. If the DoD told Anthropic "ok we won't use it for these reasons", would anyone believe that anyway? The words of politicians and the government are completely untrustworthy, that it's meaningless to read anything but theatre into the whole situation, on both Anthropic and the DoD's side
Ummm while I don’t agree with everything the Admin is doing let’s not ignore the demonization that occurred under Biden. Remember we have two weeks to flatten the curve or how everyone would be fixed with the vaccine or my personal favorite… I won’t trust a Trump vaccine said Harris who then said everyone should get them.
Does it sound reasonable to you that Anthropic would risk the destruction of their company to stop the United States government from using their product in a "lawful" way? Comon man...
If the government came to you with a written document that promises it will only use your product in a "lawful manner", would you give their product to them and trust them not to use it for evil?
My point is, lawful is meaningless, especially when it comes from any gov't spokesperson.
Cool, we can split hairs and wink wink and know that the DoD will immediately take Claude and surveil US citizens and create autonomous weapon systems. Anthropic knows it so they are losing a 200 million contract and risking the destruction of their company by being labeled a supply chain risk. Mr. Staffer is our her dropping horseshit lies and he knows it. Just like we all know it.
For it to be a lie you'd have to demonstrate that the DoD explicitly told Anthropic that it's models would be used for unlawful activities. Do you think they did that?
One can disagree with @Cje95's position on this topic without calling him a liar.
Actually if the government wanted to hurt Anthropic they would just cut it off from all of its data bases. These AI companies all want the closely guarded government data from DOD and especially DOE. They just lost both of them like that. The models will degrade while Gemini, OpenAI, and even crappy xAI will be able to advance using the data inputted.
Sure I work for the Science, Space, and Technology Majority. I staffed the AI Task Force and I was even noted in the report. My portfolio now includes the Genesis Mission so yeah I’m pretty dialed into all of this.
If you think what I post is a hard right slant then idk what to tell you because I use websites that lean left all the time.
The issue boils down to the Pentagon cannot be bullied by private companies. They cannot have private companies be able to remote in and kill programs. Anthropic wanted that ability that’s how the guardrails would have worked. You can’t maintain operational security that way.
Anthropic also wanted to prevent weapons testing via simulation and experimentation with Claude. They called it autonomous weapons but it’s autonomous testing and isn’t used in real life weapons. Anthropic is fine if pharmaceutical companies do this type of reach with viruses in wet labs so yeah they aren’t being honest.
There’s a massive difference between working with pharmaceutical companies to help cure disease, and trusting the least trustworthy version of the U.S. government in history not to cross ethical boundaries — one who is openly murdering people and brazenly lying to the world on live television every fucking day. Hopefully banning the best model will make their fascist takeover attempt less effective.
Oh, now it's the DoD won't be bullied? I thought it was just Anthropic reacting to the DoD using it for 'lawful purposes'. I think they call that a moving of the goals posts no?
What on gods green earth are you even saying? It all means the same thing Anthropic moved the goal posts when they changed their “AI Constitution”
Your original post: " The Pentagon only asked for the ability to utilize Claude within law abiding guidelines and Anthropic said no."
Now, it's about the government not being bullied by Anthropic.
Move that goal post!
You're a fucking propagandist. I mean Republican staffer. We get it.
It’s so funny how poor your critical thinking skills are. It’s called a layered issue. If something is legal and Anthropic pushes back and Pentagon refuses to be told by a private company what is legal because they are a private company and they try to pressure the Pentagon with a PR campaign into agreeing on their terms that’s text book bullying.
It’s not moving the goal posts at all. Honestly with your responses here I’m not sure you know what moving the goal posts even means and the layers to it.
My understanding is he works for a house rep. My guess is a Republican. Hardly hard right though. These days hard right is pretty meaningless. A better description, a more fair one would be partisan. Maybe that's what you mean.
Reporting is almost always slanted against this administration. I'm no fan of this administration but reporting on stuff like this is often very misleading. That said, this administration is anything but worthy of trust.
The truth is we can't trust our institutions period. Right or left. At least I can't.
I don't know enough about this story with Anthropic to have an opinion but on the surface it sounds like nonsense that NOW they are concerned about the use of their tech. But, I don't know.
From what I understand Anthropic literally exists because the CEO and founder split from OpenAI because of safety of their models. It is entirely on brand for Anthropic to push back on the misuse of their product. Fair point that reporting can and is slanted but this this across the entire ecosystem and I believe confirmed by the CEO himself. For this guy to post out here that it was just Hegseth putting the screws to them for lawful use is disengenious at a minimum and most likely and outright lie. The DoD has literally threatened to commandeer their product by force or label them a supply chain risk and actively try to destroy their company. That sounds innocuous to you?
That's my understanding as well. Not an Scam Altman fan.
It is wild because I’ve come out multiple times slamming this admin but over gutting the sciences and still get called far right 😂
You are exactly right Anthropic went way past the point of being able to care about how their models are used I mean for gods sake they have been utilized in 2 major headline hacks and multiple more are bubbling underneath.
You're a woke lefty from where I sit 🤝
Before this story leaked I thought maybe the world had gone to ****.
After this story though it pretty much removed all doubt sadly.
Makes me wanna use Anthropic more, tbh
Claude is the best I've used for code
I agree I love Claude but now come Monday I bet none of my devices will load it anymore or even worse it’ll lock me out of the system for doing so 🤦🏼♂️
Few things are as they appear. Not up to speed on this drama but on the surface it does seem extremely odd to me that Anthropic would suddenly have an issue. If you sell your products to governments that have militaries and police your products are likely to be used to do things that you might have moral issues with. The Trump admin just doesn't sugar coat it. As a student of history I don't buy the surface story as being presented.
I’ve been very impressed with 4.6 lately
Foreign Policy: The Pentagon Feuding With an AI Company Is a Very Bad Sign
Anthropic doesn’t trust this administration with its technology—and it has a point.
Looks like OpenAI's swooping in.
Gemini and xAI actually signed contracts with them first lol! OpenAI is a few days to late to the party lol
Is anyone even listening to Trump at this point. Watch him kiss and make up next week.
That's a good point. TACO trade is the best and most reliable trade. Long anthropic (though I don't think it's publicly traded)
This seems to be a core strategy that far too many miss. Chaos is used to get stuff done. Sometimes it doesn't work. It seems... chaotic because it is.
Open AI just raised 100B. I think they will be just fine.
This isn't OpenAI though.
Probably a good thing. I am sure there are more than enough people interested in investing.
What a surprise. Retaliation macro-scale. Gimme what I want or else...
It’s even worse than just tha announcement… Anthropic has been blacklisted. Being listed as a Supply-Chain Risk to National Security is something that can kill a company.