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171 sats \ 19 replies \ @ek 12 Dec \ parent \ on: A bunch of alarming shit BooksAndArticles
I don't want to be that guy, but I think someone has to be that guy, so I'm going to be that guy who mentions that, yes, he thinks his generation is mostly fucked (ha!) when it comes to dating.
I’ve more or less accepted that it's very likely I’m not going to marry, I'm not going to have children, but I might own a house thanks to bitcoin, but I’m not even sure if I want that, also thanks to bitcoin.
But I'll be rich enough to fly planes for fun, so I guess I shouldn't complain? 🤔
yes, he thinks his generation is mostly fucked (ha!) when it comes to dating.
Why? "Dating" is overbroad, so maybe that's what I'm confused about. Do you mean:
- getting married
- having a family
- being in a stable long-term relationship
- something else
I've read some Gen-Z stuff on the topic but it's never made a ton of sense to me, since the arguments have generally been non-economic ones, so I'd be interested in your perspective.
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Do you mean:
I meant your first three, because for me, one follows from the other: a stable long-term relationship → getting married → having a family.
So by “dating”, I meant starting that journey with a relationship that has the potential to become something long-term and stable.
since the arguments have generally been non-economic ones
Why did the non-economic arguments not make sense to you?
I think my argument is also not economic, but a mix of culture and politics, so maybe nothing new to you. It’s just that I think society is deeply divided about many things: old vs. young; rich vs. poor; male vs. female; capitalism vs. socialism/communism; heterosexual vs. homosexual; cisgender vs. transgender; kids vs. no kids; science vs. populism; inclusive language vs. existing language. It makes it really frustrating to find someone who doesn’t think you’re a bad person because of X, as if only X matters.
And then you can also add social media, online dating, and all that stuff to this. I tried online dating, and it was soul-crushing. Maybe I should try again, but I really think it’s not for me. Does it make sense to change to fit into a society you don’t even like?
But I also think I’ve probably just been looking in the wrong places so far. I used to be politically left, but it turned out that women from the political left are far from what I want. I also met a girl who was far on the right (from my perspective), but she wasn’t what I wanted either. I’m also to blame, because bitcoin is one of those polarizing topics, and I didn’t necessarily handle that topic well when it came up.
I think the "End of the World" party from Mr. Robot might be something my generation (Gen Y) can resonate with, and Gen Z even more. Doesn't that mean there's a trend?
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I tried online dating, and it was soul-crushing
What was soul-crushing about it? Sorry, I grew up in an era where online dating wasn't common, so I don't know much about it and never tried it.
I do know a number of couples who found their eventual spouse through online dating apps though. Actually, I know of at least 4 in my own social circles.
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You don't get any matches, you don't get any messages1, and the app constantly reminds you that you can pay (more) to get "more matches" (but 0 times anything is still 0, haha). All the profiles look fake af, the interactions feel fake af, and nothing about swiping left or right seems to bring me closer to "real human connection." It's more like the opposite: getting used to and accepting the lack of real human connection, and realizing that we're all alone at home, trying to connect through apps (dating, social media, etc.), even though we're aware that these apps don't have our interests in mind. And that's how you're supposed to find someone nowadays? What is NOT soul-crushing about this? haha
I do know a number of couples who found their eventual spouse through online dating apps though. Actually, I know of at least 4 in my own social circles.
Yes, I think most couples I know did find each other through dating apps. But it doesn't change the fact it's a horrible experience.
Footnotes
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One time I even got a message, but it turned out it was just a bot marketing something. ↩
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dang.. i just wonder what the experience for those people was like. Like how many matches did they get before they found "the one", how soul crushing was it, how many times did they think about giving up, etc. You know what, maybe I should actually just ask some of them!
Also, i dunno what this means, but all of the couples I know who got married through dating apps were using one called "Coffee Meets Bagel".
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Speaking as someone who did find their wife (on Hinge) in 2022, it’s soul-crushing until you meet the person you were waiting for. I liked Hinge much better than the other apps because you can send a message that can help you stand out from the crowd, as opposed to just swiping blindly and then having to come up with a strategy later.
It’s important to remember that the juice is worth the squeeze - nothing worth having in life is easy, and the partner you choose is one of the most impactful decisions you’ll ever make.
For me, I actually moved to a city with a bigger dating pool, even though it was more expensive. I wouldn’t trade my wife for any amount of cheaper rent, so why would I take finding her any less seriously?
Even though it’s rough out there don’t lose hope, good things come to people who put in the work. Of all people, Bitcoiners should know this truth well.
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Thanks for the perspective.
The fact that you moved to a more expensive city to have access to a larger dating pool is an interesting twist on the housing affordability issue.
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To be more positive and fair: I have had some good experiences just going out by myself, so I think I just need to do that more. I’m also getting more comfortable giving genuine compliments without any expectations, like saying, "Hey, your hair looks nice," and then running away, haha
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Why did the non-economic arguments not make sense to you?
I expressed it badly: I've seen economic arguments that it's hard to get started on a family by most of the standard definitions (have a house, some economic security) and how that would cause perverse effects is easy enough to understand. The other class of arguments tend to range over much larger territory, and I didn't know which things you were talking about, but now I do thanks to your elaborated answer.
It makes it really frustrating to find someone who doesn’t think you’re a bad person because of X, as if only X matters.
I wish I was still in the game because I'm v curious about this. It seems like everybody is feeling this same thing, no? Nobody likes what it's doing to them. Which seems like something you could unite over. Like, if your profile called it out. "I'm looking to connect w/ someone and not get lost in these stupid labels and tribalisms and all that." But maybe that's naiive.
I can say, not from online dating but from life, even from SN, which is kind of a hostile environment for this kind of thing, which makes it a good example: putting yourself out there, earnestly, makes you a target for stupid bullshit, but there's always people who are hungry for real interaction, and they respond. It's always happened, to such a degree that it seems corny: put yourself out there, be real, have positive regard for people by default, and people matching that description turn up in all sorts of places.
Again, not denying your own experience. Dating is its own weird game. I wish I could play still, just to see what it's like now. Although from what you're reporting, maybe it would erode one of my handful of comforting beliefs about the world :(
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It's always happened, to such a degree that it seems corny: put yourself out there, be real, have positive regard for people by default, and people matching that description turn up in all sorts of places.
You are right, which is why I'm also maintaining my blog, and I conveniently left this part out to get my point better across
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dude, you're so young and everything is in flux.
don't hold out for a thing but if you want to find an emotional partnership it's well within your capability.
"lawyer up, hit the gym"
its not only a mantra, its the truth.
you can explore social environments you can't imagine. I would recommend Mars College... at the risk of destabilizing SN's development efforts, ping me if you want a reference
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Thank you!
You are right, this was more of an emotional outburst, miserably attempting to speak for a whole generation, than anything else. See #1332659 and #1333877.
Mars College
You mean this?
at the risk of destabilizing SN's development efforts
I don't work here anymore, so I already destabilized it as much as I can
ping me if you want a reference
Where? I'm currently doing #1299187.
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Yes, that's the spot.
Technically possible to do the two things (mars + other thing) concurrently, but it wouldn't maximize the benefits of either and you'd need to wait for the '27 Applications to open 9-ish months from now if you want to attend, their season/semester runs Jan - April
Of course, you'd be welcomed to visit if you wound up in that part of California for a moment.
Where?
I have an npub in my profile. I can share a burner email there too, I suppose.
#1299187.
Oh cool! Enjoy that :)
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Mars College
Sorry, hope I don't sound too critical, but isn't this just LARPing?
Does it really count as off grid living if you have to source all your construction materials and equipment from civilization? You might build a village but it won't be sustainable in the long run without continual contact with outside manufacturing resources and communication services. What then is the point of being "off grid"?
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well, you're not wrong that it depends on civilization. it's a classroom for testing boundaries like shelter and utilities for a digital lifestyle..
imagine getting food for 60 people in the desert... not gonna happen without having a significant support.
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I think "testing the boundaries" is probably a good way to put it. not against the project by the way, it sounds interesting. Just also in my mind I'm probing the boundaries of how independent one can truly make oneself from civilization, and in particular, from dependence on governments
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capability to disconnect is one thing
desire to is different.
being in isolation with 60 goofballs to learn from, for 90 days is a pretty good time
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It sounds awesome! I bet whoever does something like that would walk away with some crazy perspective in all kinds of ways.