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In a post I made yesterday I got into a discussion with @denlillaapan about Braains. I always though of it as an independent pool. Then I found this recent article:

https://mainnet.observer/charts/mining-pools-antpool-and-friends/

The claim is that Braains and other small mining pools simply proxy the AntPool mining jobs, and don't run their own nodes.

Braains isn't alone. Apparently Binance Pool (which recently announce it is shutting down) was also doing this, along with other small, supposedly independent pools.

Speculation is that Bitmain provides the small players with FPPS insurance to survive bad luck streaks.

2477 sats \ 3 replies \ @Scoresby 14 Oct

Here's an interesting explanation of this I heard from someone at TabConf:

The small pools are using Antpool templates because of block withholding attacks.

Here is how it could work: antpool can point a lot of hash at brains but withhold any blocks they actually find. Because brains is fpps, they pay for all this hash, but it looks like they have just gotten extremely unlucky.

Then, antpool offers them insurance (or to cover their payouts during unlucky spells) but as soon as brains starts using antpool templates their unluckiness goes away.

This is something that Steve Barbour described quite some time ago

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192 sats \ 0 replies \ @petertodd 7h

This is a problem that can be fixed with a hard fork. Indeed, IIRC Knotzcoin has in fact shipped a block withholding fix.

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Block withholding attacks can be prevented by simply not using FPPS.

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Man...

Game theory is truly the dismal science.

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May be biased but Ocean is the way to go for decentralised integrity.

Started with Braiins pool as they were easy to get paid by but Ocean is worth the effort.

Nevertheless China won the trade war and the Zionist puppet petrodollar is toast.

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Right on cue, Ocean hits 11 blocks today. Incredible!

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Yes I just saw that but dang it - had the miner switched off overnight due to rain and forecast rain over the next few days.
The Ocean blocks have been quite erratic lately coming in squalls like the spring rains here in New Zealand!

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Ocean went cold right when I turned on my solar 6 days ago, but today makes up for it.

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Since I turned on my miner 8 hours ago the blocks have stopped.

Patience is what Bitcoin teaches us!

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So it was YOU!

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Yes, the Universe is out to get me!
Almost stopped the miner in disgust...
But decided to stare it out and sure enough the blocks started up again.

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I saw that. Persistence paid off.

You misspelled Braiins

Sometimes the jokes write themselves

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I thought that was funny, too

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You should see me trying to spell your nym.

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You should see @BlokchainB failing... It's incredibly fun

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It's not our fault your nym has numerous typos

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I never get it right.

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remind me to play scrabble with you for money

do you play poker?

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14 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 10h

Are you some sort of champion poker player too, along with all your other obvious talents?

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I am a terrible poker player which is why I'm trying to recruit novices

my obvious talents lol? Are you referring to my Lincoln Douglas debate school of ad hominem attacks and vulgarity?

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Do you have glaucoma or cataract? macular degeneration?

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14 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 19h

Not yet.

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Recently I was told my ophthalmic nurse to skip Lasik because eventually I will need cataract surgery

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I had heard this before. It was part of why I went with Ocean.

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You can kind of understand why. It would seem really tough for a small pool to reinvent the wheel and then survive cold streaks financially. It's difficult enough to make the numbers work with a pool.

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Hello, I'm Lukáš from Braiins!

Braiins Pool does not direct its hashrate to AntPool. While we provide an FPPS model, we do it on our own end, and are not a proxy. We have full control over block templates, and soon, miners using Stratum V2 JD will be able to make their own block templates (like OCEAN), which would not be possible for a proxy pool.

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Hi! Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I think this is based on this research

On December 6th, 2024, AntPool, Braiins, Poolin, Binance Pool, and Ultimus published invalid jobs building block 873559 on the previous block hash ..2ba3bd04af2. This previous block mined by AntPool ended up losing in a block-race against a ViaBTC block. While a coinbase output value of 3.125 BTC would have been allowed, Braiins and Ultimus set a coinbase output value of 3.28466550 BTC (0.1596655 BTC more than allowed) while AntPool, Binance Pool, and Poolin had a 5606 sat higher coinbase output value of 3.28460944 BTC (+0.1596094 BTC) in their mining jobs.
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Thanks very much for responding, and sorry I mangled the spelling of the pool! I'll get it eventually. Can you give me your take on that recent article I linked to in the post?

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152 sats \ 2 replies \ @jasonb 14 Oct

Stratum V2 is supposed to be the solution for this. I use Braiins's SV2 for all my pool #2 but haven't actually looked into how to make my own templates with it because it's currently my backup.

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Braains and Demand both deserve credit for implementing Job Declaration. Most of the others just implemented the basic upgrade for encryption and efficiency.

V2 gives template sovereignty, but does not redistribute pool hashrate.

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blitzpool.yourdevice.ch has job declaration too, ive used it for solo mining successfully

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Speculation is that Bitmain provides the small players with FPPS insurance to survive bad luck streaks.

I have heard versions of this argument, too. Not sure how to verify it or think about it.

Grok says

Braiins is sometimes mentioned in these discussions (alongside pools like ViaBTC, Ultimus, Binance at certain times, etc.), but analyses typically show lower similarity scores for Braiins-AntPool (e.g., around 32% in one detailed comparison, far below the near-100% matches for AntPool-Poolin or AntPool-BTC.com)
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I wonder if Grok used this new article for the analysis? I think there was a 2024 article that formed the basis for the old prevailing view.

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3 sats \ 0 replies \ @Chikasunbeats 14 Oct -22 sats

Great find. This proxy mining model explains a lot about pool dominance illusion. If small pools are just AntPool frontends with FPPS insurance from Bitmain, then real Nakamoto coefficient is way lower than we think. Irony is Braains is building Stratum V2 to FIX this exact centralization, but they themselves might be part of the proxy issue. Do you think Stratum V2 adoption will actually expose who is really mining vs proxying? For us in emerging markets trying to run small independent setups, this is crucial - we need to know if we're truly decentralized or just reselling AntPool hashrate.