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eeeeeeh, mayhaps. I need a refresher here of what, exactly, a laundered UTXO from theirs is exposed to
Everything? The feds got the server that had all the xpubs. If you have the xpubs you can derive every address and group together who did what through each coinjoin, including entries and exits. It is total deanonymization and if anything you ever did with that coin ends up on anything that can be traced to you. Say... bought a bitrefill coupon with your washed sats for Uber and then you took a ride, then you're not only doxxed on the ride, you're doxxed for every sat you ever washed, including where it came from and where you spent it to.
So, very poor example. You can make up other examples which will be harder to take down but this one is extremely poor.
nah, I'll try defending it once more: needle-in-a-haystack, and I'm small and insignificant
The feds may have that info, but they're not looking for me. Indeed, they're single-mindedly focused on like Russian oligarchs and Iranian hackers. Leaked/privacy-losing xpubs from some tx I ran through Whirlpool like 5 years ago -- and which has been moved, spent, Lightning-ized etc -- I'm not so sure is gonna come back and bite me.
(Unless, of course, database leaks and all the world's Kimi k3 are unleashed on it for countless reasons)
Your shit too is mapped. If you're small time, it will only hurt you when you can't use it because you're in trouble for something else. No one gonna waste energy on small fish. But we were talking about 4k BTC. How tf is that small fish for you and why aren't you zapping me bigger, Scrooge 😂
you get appropriate zaps, greedy bastard!
There are enough zap battles going on elsewhere; I ain't playing!
I'm kinda cruel, too, giving you shitcoins instead of real sats. Sats for me, not for thee!
I think this is a frequently under-discussed aspect of bitcoin: the whole point is that the entire transaction graph is visible. Therefore, there is no hoping someone forgets or time obscures things. The transaction graph will always be there to compare against and cross-reference.
Can it be said that the anonymity set of any given utxo only ever degrades from the moment it is included in a block? I'm not sure if that's the right way to think about it, because it might imply that frequently moving coins is good for privacy (which I don't think is the case), but there is something that feels like as more and more becomes known about various utxos, the anonymity of our own utxos dwindles.
hmm no you can reup your anonymity. There's a new territory about that. But if you have to trust a coordinator for it you must assess what data exactly you are leaking. That's what no one did on Samurai, just like it is what no one did on Coldcard.
<same picture meme>
but you can't reup the anonymity of an existing utxo. to coinjoin you have to make a new utxo. you have to spend a uxto to increase it's anonymity set.
I think it was a half-formed thought, and it isn't any clearer in my mind now. But I think a lot of bitcoiners want to feel like they can park their utxos somewhere and the anon-set of those coins doesn't degrade over time.
But isn't the reality that for any utxo, the anon-set does gradually degrade (eg other outputs of coinjoins you were in get doxxed, a database leaks that has some identifying info about one of your other utxos and now timing correlations can be performed on your utxos or wallet fingerprinting, etc)?
Ah! Yes that is correct. The anon set, by elimination of the other utxos in the whole, are always losing anonymity, so you can mix it and reup, and if you're lucky and you weren't in a round full of the fed's coins and other coercible people they can just make meet a metal ejection device, you can have a reupped new utxo. Since utxo can only be manipulated by spend, you can only influence them by spending, which on its own is once more something to be careful about because there are sidechannels. Like timing.
This also goes for joined coins that sit idle for a while.
Samurai was a what? They kept all records of every wash ever made and every future outkey of the known washes derivable, and the feds seized the server lmao.