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The circles change but they don't become a line; at most a spiral.
Oh yes, the Strange Loops, I remember.
even when we know it leads just to another path. The destination is unknown.
Is it really unknown? I think we're all aware of the teetering balance between life and death? In Indian spiritualism we have the unsaid secret of the Gyanganj which is a legendary, mystical Himalayan kingdom of immortal sages that exists on a higher spiritual dimension beyond ordinary physical perception and satellite mapping.
Gyanganj represents a reality where normal rules of aging, mortality, and physical decay do not apply. Time flows differently, allowing enlightened beings (siddhas) to remain eternally conscious and active. Hindu and Buddhist traditions view it as a sacred vault of supreme spiritual knowledge. As noted in Untold Stories of Mystic GyanGanj, “The Buddhists consider that Shambhala protects the secret non secular teachings of the world.” It corresponds to Siddhashram in Hindu lore and Shambhala in Tibetan Buddhism. [1, 2]
But I'm not preaching spiritualism without evidence as i'm a scientific man myself.
Swami Vishudhananda and Surya Vijnan
Swami Vishudhananda Paramahamsa (popularly known as Gandha Baba) was initiated into the secret Himalayan kingdom of Gyanganj. He spent 12 years there under the tutelage of masters like Swami Nimanand Paramahansa and Maharshi Mahatapa. [1, 2, 3, 4]
- The Solar Science: His masters taught him Surya Vijnan (Solar Science). According to this science, the universe is manifested through 360 distinct rays of the sun. [1, 2, 3, 4]
- The Demonstrations: By focusing specific solar rays through a magnifying glass or using pure willpower (Iccha Shakti), Vishudhananda demonstrated the restructuring of matter. Witness accounts from disciples and skeptics alike record him transforming cotton wool into stone, turning a rose into a different flower, reconstructing burned documents from their ashes, and instantly manifesting complex perfumes out of thin air. [1, 2, 3]
THERE IS A YOUTUBE VIDEO OF HIM PERFORMING IT LIVE IN FRONT OF PEOPLE, i just lost it because i haven't been in touch with these things for so long, i had particularly saved this video....
Did you know about Mahavatar Babaji, the supreme, ageless guru popularized globally by Paramahansa Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi? [1, 2]
- The Second Body (Kaya Kalpa / Mahakaya): Babaji is believed to have mastered physical immortality, maintaining a youthful, 16-year-old appearance for over two millennia. He possesses a Mahakaya (divine, deathless physical form) that requires no food, does not cast a shadow, and can materialize or dematerialize at will. [1, 2, 3]
THIS PERSON IS STILL ALIVE AND IS HIGHLY CENSORED BY INTERNATIONAL LAWS!
- The Eyewitness Accounts: Several advanced yogis who claimed to have visited or communicated with Mahavatar Babaji's circle—such as the royal physician Dr. Ram Bhosle, who spent years with Babaji in the Himalayas—reported that historical figures and revolutionaries who "vanished" were granted protection and spiritual shelter by these deathless masters. According to these oral traditions, Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose was seen alive in the secret ashrams of the Himalayas, living under a secondary spiritual identity (Gumnami Baba or a localized saintly body) guided by the immortal line of Gyanganj siddhas. [1, 2]
@optimism beat me to the Eternal Golden Braid reference. I've tried to read it three times and never finished -- it always starts me down a rabbit hole that becomes more consuming than the book, even though the book itself is very engaging. It's probably the first time I bumped up against the liar's paradox.
I was glad to see that the OP brought up Daodejing (can't remember if Hofstadter did). I used to enjoy reading the dao and zen koans principally because I thought I could crack it/them and find some iron truth. At some point I wondered if it wasn't the case that such things don't have the truth as their point -- perhaps not even a truth.
It seems to me that truth is absolute enough for us to stay sane but if you want to push against its boundaries you can easily discover that truth isn't absolute but firmly convincing yourself of this is no different from being insane -- which is to say it's not very useful.
It is insane to believe that truth is absolute, but you can't stay sane if you don't have some such thing to hold on to. So I fear that my answer is that you probably shouldn't think about it too much.
Let's waste our days searching for whatever we are triggered by.
can't really say it much better than this.
(can't remember if Hofstadter did)
Douglas Hofstadter and his butterflies.
Didn't know he was also a famous philosopher (at the same time, weren't they all philosophers, the physicists of old times?)
Yeah, gone are the times that scientists (or specialists from any technical field, for that matter) could have a decent grasp of the whole field, or even several fields. I barely understand what my office colleague is working on.
Yeah, it's pretty cool that he made this huge contribution to math during his graduate studies and then mostly switched fields to become even more prolific.
Very humble guy, it seems. He knew he could not solve those (Harper) equations analytically, so he provided one of the first computer-assisted solutions to them.
I have generated many such butterflies in my work in recent years. His mathematical curiosity from 1976 was realized experimentally only a little more than 10 years ago.
it always starts me down a rabbit hole that becomes more consuming than the book
This is kind of the norm for me with any inspiring book. The first time reading The Sovereign Individual took me years. I'd just get sidetracked every few pages and be thinking about something and then this whole universe to explore would open. For some books I really have to force myself to get back into it after having my own thought trains - that can last months. I'm more relaxed now though - I guess age allows us to have some existing perspectives and not need to explore as much - but I still experience this a couple of times per book, even when re-reading. Thus why I'd need a vacay to touch this one. Maybe a sabbatical. haha.
truth is absolute enough [..] push against its boundaries [..] which is to say it's not very useful.
Hah! Kind of disagree with this though. Being insane can be a superpower, you just have to learn to wield it. Plus, you have to be a little bit insane if you're a Bitcoiner, especially a stacker - the masses are definitely not here with us. Enjoy being a little insane.
yes, the saying it's not very useful isn't right.
I was thinking of why we seek "absolute" truth rather than something softer (eg true enough, true in this context). I have looked for absolute truth because I want a sense of safety that comes from certainty and having something decided and knowing where it stands. But the liars paradox points out some holes in that safety, so what I was calling "not very useful" is the sense that I think I can only have absolute truth as long as I'm not very rigorous about it -- which sort of defeats the purpose.
I've been thinking about doing a Sovereign Individual book club on SN. I enjoyed having a reason to push through the Praxeology of Privacy (gotta read my chapter so I can talk about it on SN...) but perhaps the thing I really should do is a GEB book club.
Ah! I just always assume that after doing something or studying something, I am perhaps closer to the truth (well... a truth) than I was before. But thanks to it all being circles, no matter how hard I accelerate[1] I still won't ever catch up. I just end up having a higher velocity. I get loads of things wrong though... So maybe its all just subjective crap we tell ourselves to feel better about our insignificance.
PS: book club is a great idea. I had trouble keeping up in reading along with you but you did point me to interesting things.
just did a year of massive
dv/tand I feel like I'm only getting started. I curse the universe for no longer being 20 tho. Today's tech came too late for my bodily form so I guess i will have to find a way to digitize and upload myself and pester the world forever. ↩
The point of such books is to display it prominently on your bookshelf and say that you've read it!
I think that in the early 80s, after I got a copy of "Gödel, Escher, Bach" for my bday - luckily for me in English - this concept of a world full of self-referential structures opened my mind a bit to the way up not always being that, and neither the way down, but that instead we're all kind of waddling in circles. The circles change but they don't become a line; at most a spiral.
So from that perspective[1] I think that there's not even tragedy. Just you search, you find answers, and then you are back at having more questions, which you'll have to find answers for. Or like a socratic pendejo that just never stops asking why... allegedly not even after you shoot them.
The things you aspire to know will only make you have more questions, but, being ignorant means you'll just be boring. So let's waste our days searching for whatever we are triggered by. Truth, peace, love, or it just making sense in some way... it's all very fragile ultimately. We ought to enjoy the path though, even when we know it leads just to another path. The destination is unknown.
a perspective of cyclic force that fwiw completely destroyed my career drive and instead made me a weird mf that lives rapid cycles - not recommended if you desire to at least be a little normal. I have made a habit the past couple years out of re-reading books I haven't touched for decades, but this one... I'm not even sure if I really wanna. (I do actually but I need a vacay for that one.) ↩