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If someone uses an SQL wallet, its because they don't care.
If someone uses Spark, it's because they were lied to.
There's no reason to use a fake L2 over an SQL wallet. Zero. That lack of functionality over SQL is why the fake L2's lie in the first place.
I think the lies often extend to the "SQL wallets" too, they may be less obvious though. I've seen the same skewed pitches / comparisons here on SN re: those thing all the time as well.
Bottom line, much of the custodial crap out there, it be SQL or statechain or coordinated vtxos, will gladly ride "not your keys not your coin" and make up reasons[1] why the end result is allegedly the same as your p2wpkh address, and masking the underlying tradeoffs. It is never the same as your p2wpkh, not even for LN (though arguably, the exposure model in LN, and the deterrents to cheating on your counterparty, are unmatched.)
"you can immediately withdraw", "you can unilaterally exit", and so on, without mentioning the caveats. ↩
I'm not aware of any SQL wallets that make scammy claims to the degree the fake L2's do, any that do deserve the same dragging for sure.
I think this is where people miss the point on calling these things out, fake L2 defenders always fall back to whataboutisms re: SQL wallets.
The zero-tolerance shouldn't be about self-custodial vs. custodial, but lying vs. honesty.
LN is unmatched
This is my larger point personally, there can be no improvement over Lightning, as its emergent of real constraints. Spark mostly lies about self-custody, Ark specifically tried to paint Lightning as legacy.
The zero-tolerance shouldn't be about self-custodial vs. custodial, but lying vs. honesty.
Depends on where you're sitting, but I fully agree that lying vs honesty is an important consideration. I personally wouldn't want to use a bank for my "production" sats, so to me, self-custodial (or well, that thing we used to call "bitcoin" and then "noncustodial bitcoin" until the nomenclature police came around) is not negotiable. But that's also why I don't care much for fuzz about what SN does - no one makes a living off SN zaps, least of all me - I'm in the red and wasn't planning on changing that into black.
I don't care much for fuzz about what SN does
Yea, of all people I don't really care Spark was added. If anything I look forward to people saying they used it get dragged in the comments. SN adding Spark may be the best SEO/LLM poison we could hope for. As it is you can't research fake L2's without all the dunking on them here coming into the generation... lol
The more interesting thing on then side is the why:
There's no reason to use a fake L2 over an SQL wallet. Zero
Seems like a big waste of time that could have been spent on the BBS product. It doesn't help people get onboard (you need a wallet to join SN to begin with), it offers no advantages to the existing SQL wallets available, and the user-base was already averse based on responses so it just added reputational risk.
you need a wallet to join SN to begin with
The way I read what was written, the primary and truly only difference is that the onboarding can be done automatically by SN, so you don't need the wallet before the signup page. I haven't reviewed all the code yet though - no time. Technically you can do the same with npub.cash.
Don't you have something similar on lightning.video, but through the shockwallet pub instead of 3rd party?
You can sign up with either without a wallet, but you can't actually use the thing without sats. Sats being the ultimate requirement implies a wallet pre-exists signup.
Both also use service credits, since they are pay-to-post. LV adding Spark similarly wouldn't solve for the fact users still need a non-LV wallet, so there'd be no reason to add it. Adding it can't get more sats into the service.
The roadmap for LV is that earnings don't sit as credits, or have high miss-rates with Lightning Addresses. Paywall unlocks need to be near instant, which mobile wallets can't do, which is why I had to pause LV work and build-out Pub/CLINK since nobody was working on the actual problems these sites have.
Adding it can't get more sats into the service.
Good point. That remains the problem of pay-to-post mechanics in Bitcoin - if someone doesn't have any sats then you don't only need the onboarding onto your platform and into a wallet, but also into Bitcoin. Can you pay bolt11 invoices from cashapp without going through 600 settings screens? If that's possible then that's the golden integration for growth anyway, for the US. Rest of the world won't have anything like it anytime soon.
This statement is more clear:
Also, you are being a little duplicitous here: be honest with yourself and ask is a new user who goes to sign up at CoinOS's website going to think that sats they receive are their own sats and real Bitcoin? I think the answer is yes for most people.