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Your observations are spot on.
My main goal was to find out what people thought of "money as a moderator" because it is something I've been using as my main pitch when I tell people about SN.
People often aren't very good at understanding the real reason they do things.
This is rings true. And I agree, but there is also some truth to listening to people when they tell you something. I don't think it is a coincidence that the response across so many different places was "no one will pay to post." The lesson I took from this is that I definitely need to change how I'm talking about things to outsiders...and that it might help to seek out outsiders who are more interested in what we are doing.
Pitching it in opposition to something else is an interesting point. I'll try that.
My main goal was to find out what people thought of "money as a moderator" because it is something I've been using as my main pitch when I tell people about SN.
I think a way to describe it that might be more palatable to most people is "skin in the game"
there is also some truth to listening to people when they tell you something. I don't think it is a coincidence that the response across so many different places was "no one will pay to post."
Totally agree, but I also think we often have to read between the lines. The negative reaction is real, but the stated reason is often surface level. In other words, even though they say they wouldn't pay to post, don't assume that they really wouldn't. THey maybe would, if the process was made easy enough
THey maybe would, if the process was made easy enough
This is good to remember, and I really do think it is true. If it's really really easy, we might get most anyone to use SN, but prior to this little exercise, I had somewhat cutely assumed that pay to post and money as a moderator were attractive ideas (perhaps because they are edgy or unexpected) and I think I have discovered that I underestimated how strong many people's reactions are to those concepts. I definitely need a new angle on these ideas.
money as a moderator were attractive ideas (perhaps because they are edgy or unexpected) and I think I have discovered that I underestimated how strong many people's reactions are to those concepts
Mmm... my view on it is that, again, the reaction is entirely vibes-based, not logic-based.
For example, the old SN motto: "Fixing online communities with economics" vibes better to people than "Money is the moderator". Leading with "Let's build communities where participants have skin in the game" garners a better reaction than "Let's build communities where people must pay to post" -- even if essentially they're the same concepts.
It is possible that we on SN have gotten so echo-chambery that we've lost sight of what kinds of words vibe well with people and what don't. I personally don't think that I've lost it though, maybe because I communicate economics to normies for a living.
I too was shocked that anyone would expect people to vibe with “money is the moderator”.
I love it and the kinds of people I want here would too, but we’re really fucking weird.
we oddballs are right, and they just dont like our words (but would like the content if properly explained/explored?) or we oddballs are wrong? Or, you know, general disagreement of values; no accounting for taste?
On this one, we oddballs are right. The incentives are just better, regardless of your tastes.
I have wondered if there isn't some value to our weirdness. It seems to me that it is difficult to attract users with descriptions of a nicer community with better incentives. Saying it's a place where you have to pay to post or especially where "money is the moderator" has a certain shock value I've been hoping makes people do a double take.
I suspect that if I had phrased my posts on these fora more gently ("How could we increase users' skin in the game?"), I wonder how many people would have decided to reply to the thread.
But shock value/ugly marketing may be the wrong approach.
the real reasons they will or won't use a product. People often aren't very good at understanding the real reason they do things. They know they don't like this, and they'll reach for any reason to object to it, even if it's really the reason or not.
This <3
A couple of things: