Hm. Interesting. Clearly IP has a different nature from physical property since two people could have the same idea independently of each other. 

For example, what if it wasn't Grug's cousin but a member of a neighbouring clan? Would they try to extract food from them too? They would have to prove (or convince) the rest of their clan that it were so, and then risk the possibility of going to war. That would take a ton of charisma (first) and then probably some kind of administrative process (later on.)

A quandry: if it wasnt theft, and just coincidence, then don't they risk violating natural law by stealing/plundering what wasn't theirs?

> adjacent to natural law

Yes, this is how I understand applying Locke to IP (which I just found is done more structurally and fundamentally than I expected, in copyright specifically) because it becomes simply a question of ownership of work product.

> relatively recent in history

organized systems go back to at least the middle ages, when people really started inventing and making complex useful things

conceptually it goes back to ancient greece and china

given the emergence in two completely distinct civilizations in primitive times, that indicates it is part of our human software, and at least adjacent to natural law

assume you're part of a stone age clan of hunters/gatherers, Grug makes wheel, clan benefit from wheel... wheel good. Grug cousin no want hunt, also make wheel... 

What does the clan do? tell Grug cousin him need to hunt if wants eat, or give half Grug food?

justin_shocknet

I'm trying to figure out if there is an analogy to private property, which is relatively easy to conceptualize. "My cow," has been pretty easy to distinguish between "your cow," for a really long time. Some would venture to call this "natural."

But I don't think the same thing can be said for ideas. E.g. *This arrangement of atoms is exclusively mine, and if you do the same arrangement and try to profit by it, I'm suing your ass," feels relatively recent in history, and as you said, requires a more complex system of arbitration.

Politics_And_Law

Has intellectual property ever actually existed?

billytheked

> I'm not entirely sure what you mean 

I'm trying to figure out if there is an analogy to private property, which is relatively easy to conceptualize. "My cow," has been pretty easy to distinguish between "your cow," for a really long time. Some would venture to call this "natural." 

But I don't think the same thing can be said for ideas. E.g. *This arrangement of atoms is exclusively mine, and if you do the same arrangement and try to profit by it, I'm suing your ass," feels relatively recent in history, and as you said, requires a more complex system of arbitration.