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I imagine this is in response to the Bitkey v2 announcement.

When we wrote the first line of code for Nunchuk 6 years ago, we deliberated a lot on whether to hide the concept of “keys” from users.

At the time, due to the popularity of singlesig wallets, a lot of Bitcoin wallets intentionally chose to abstract away “keys.” A wallet became synonymous with a key.

Not only is this straight out wrong, it leads users to a confused place, unable to fully understand the power of public-key cryptography, one of the cornerstones of Bitcoin.

Without understanding keys and public-key cryptography, users will never truly grok the power of Bitcoin or become truly self-sovereign.

Users are not dumb, and we chose to treat users with respect by not hiding away keys. In 20 years, we believe everyone will need to understand public and private keys to function in an increasingly digital world. Learning how public-key cryptography works will be similar to learning ABC. Whether you are self-custodying bitcoin or giving your AI agent an identity, you either understand it and stay in control of your future, or you don’t.

We decided to make “keys” a first-class UI/UX citizen in Nunchuk. Keys, then wallets. Wallets are made up of keys. Two distinct abstractions.

We vow to never abstract away this critical concept. You will always be able to import and export keys in Nunchuk based on open standards.

No vendor lock-in. Ever.

The "seedless is safer" path is a little more palatable to me than it was a year ago, but I'd still rather be able to access my key material.

seedless is safer

As in no derivation? Why is that safer?

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71 sats \ 3 replies \ @ca 17h
  • you don't need to select a physical place to hide it
  • you cannot lose it to memory, fire, flooding
  • guests cannot steal it from your home
  • you won't make mistakes transcribing the seed
  • you won't have to maintain the physical seed and check on it regularly
  • you don't have to explain the concept of keys to normies
  • et al.
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Okay?

  • What magic secret can live in the open?
  • What magic secret (container?) can sustain amnesia/wear, fire and flooding?
  • What magic secret cannot be stolen?
  • What magic secret is persistent and absolute in backup?
  • What magic secret is non-physical?
  • What magic secret is so magic that you don't have to explain it?
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173 sats \ 1 reply \ @ca 6h

Bitkey has a clean solution to the dilemma.

Certainly with tradeoffs, but only one I could gift to a normie and have a guarantee that they won't fail in custoding bitcoin.

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I think that that's my bottom line point: tradeoffs. If you have secrets, they have to be kept safe. Whether or not you do it yourself or you outsource it, directly or indirectly, merely shifts the burden, but the burden is still there. You may just not be exposed to it in the same way and you'll have different friction.

You'll even probably still have a seed and key derivation as continuous secure random without wrapping is a security risk too that a normie won't be able to defend against.

I guess what they really mean is: we don't have a BIP-39 implementation.

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That was a reference to Bitkey's design choice to not allow users to access their key/seed material.

I don't think it is safer.

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That post says 3 words "not your keys" in 300 words. But it doesn't even say how it solves it.

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Yes it made me so grumpy I got into it with Steve Lee

#1009501

Also I made a song about it:

I didn't like the idea that "no vendor lock in" was redefined as "you can send your coins to a new address" rather than "you can import your seed into another wallet software."

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104 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 15h

You: "You have to send a tx from their app to recover"
Steve: "That is not lock-in"

Steve is right though: this is not lock-in...

... it's slavery disguised as bulshytt.

(I really enjoyed re-reading Anathem, lol)

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104 sats \ 0 replies \ @ladyluck 22h

Hiding keys to simplify Bitcoin is like hiding the steering wheel to simplify driving.

It feels easier until you need to turn.

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I get the goal but the market is the ultimate decider.

Keys might be for the hardcore whole seedless will be for the masses.

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44 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lux 28 Apr

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2 sats \ 0 replies \ @ca 17h

Great stuff... now back to the real world... compare Nunchuk usage and Bitkey sales to find out which one users actually prefer

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43 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lux 28 Apr

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