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I think it is clear that downzapping is encouraging more downzapping which is just ugly and nobody likes it.

Exactly. That’s my point.

I believe the SN will soon head back to something that is closer to how it used to be.

Having often had the experience of being a low-trust or low-karma user of platforms, I worry that such systems achieve less toxicity by effectively banishing troublesome people.

While it may be a good thing, it creates the problem of how to decide who the troublesome people are.

I wonder what SN would be like if there was no such thing as downzaps, but it still used money as the only moderator. Do you think such a system would be less toxic?

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I wonder what SN would be like if there was no such thing as downzaps, but it still used money as the only moderator. Do you think such a system would be less toxic?

I think so. But only if “boost” didn’t exist either. Without downzaps and boosts, no one could manipulate the algorithm or push posts up or down. As a result, a bad post wouldn’t survive in the rankings, because no one would zap it, and the person who posted it wouldn’t be able to boost it to the top.

This would create a balance. I guess.

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But only if “boost” didn’t exist either.

Ah, but this is the problem: what stops a stacker from self-zapping? If there is no boost, why not just create a second account and zap your own post with it?

How would we make sure that bad posts aren't zapped by their own authors?

This is the main reason there is a sybil fee on SN. So that when such self-zapping happens, it is at least costly to the self-zapper.

Boost being a thing is just SN making that flow more convenient so that it's not only available to power users.

I think also that this is why most social media uses trust tools like karma or merit or they use an algorithm which is basically the platform telling people what they should look at...or they kyc.

Money is a moderator is an experiment in something different, but it certainly hasn't solved the problem. I appreciate your insights and patience.

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isn't self zapping more efficient than boost?

self zapping you get 70% of your sats back, relative to boost, if I understand correctly. and 91% back if you're the territory owner

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yes, you are correct

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Then there is no hope of this system becoming less toxic.

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what does that have to do with downzaps though

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So it seems that while money is the primary moderator, there may be a need for some sort of web of trust as well.

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personally I never had a problem with the web of trust system, though I think it could be improved in a number of ways

Isn't self-zapping the same as boosting now? I thought that was part of the recent changes...

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