I like Colion Noir when it comes to fire arms content. I like him on other things too but he really makes a lot of sense to me here.
From what I've seen the vast majority of commentary on these ICE shootings are coming from a political frame, not a non-political right to defend one's self (2A). It is clear that Trump and many of his fans are saying things that are in direct contradiction to people that believe in our right to carry arms and defend ourselves. It is important to separate that right from our opinions on the two sides. You can love what ICE is doing or hate it. That's not hard to discern. I hear a lot of people that never defend 2A defending it in this case. I hear a lot of people that claim to care about 2A dropping that over politics.
Noir does a great job focusing on the gun and legal aspects of it.
I know it's only us weirdos who think the same ethical rules apply to agents of the state, but I was thinking about how people give cops a pass on the normal rules of responsible firearms use:
There shouldn't be any exceptions to these rules for cops and excuses should be disregarded.
Its funny that even with his caveats about the practical aspects of what happened as well as the practical aspects of 2A and Trump some people still can't put the political aside to just think through the firearms and legal aspects. The Trump can do no wrong people and the Trump is Hitler people have an illness I think. A blindness.
100%
Watching this video again... dang was this whole thing a joke as far as policing.
Above all... ICE is obviously a disaster based on what we are seeing. I'd argue that it goes a lot more broad than ICE though.
Honestly, it really feels like both the activists and the Trump admin are trying to spark strife. Trying to use violence to gain more power. They are playing with fire and people are dying.
What we have to remember is that the powers are not looking for conflict resolution. Neither side. The protesters are pawns. The officers are also pawns. Politics kills people. We are seeing it right now.
Eventually, one side will realize this is a loser for them and then we may see attempts to deescalate.
Yeah, I think it will be Trump. The issue is that the division is just getting deeper and harder.
It's Trump, unless they can uncover more scandals like the Somali daycares. People will tolerate a lot in the name of protection against outsiders.
I have to say, Trump's appointments in law enforcement are incredibly terrible IMO. Not just because they are doing things I think are wrong. But how poorly they communicate and and spin stuff. It's laughably bad.
I mean... I'm not surprised. They come from government and political appointment. But they are really bad. Barbie and Pam Bondage are especially bad.
It's the right's version of identity politics. Whether I defend you or criticize you depends more on who you are than what you did.
What percent of the population do you think even tries to see things in an objective, principled way that they try to apply fairly to everyone? 20%? 10%?
20% would be high I think. I hope it's that high.
That seems way too high. Basically, partisans don't behave this way and most non-partisans are oblivious.
Indeed. Most people are non-partisans and are extremely clueless.
That's a lot of words that can be summarized thusly:
Trump in power, regardless of any of the shit he does or says, is ok because he's better for 2A because of the judges he appoints and the guy brought it on himself for carrying at a protest and getting in an interaction with armed agents of the state.
The rest is just noise and equivocation.
You missed part of the point.
If you are excusing these actions due to politics and not liking the protesters that's not supporting the right to defend yourself. If you don't defend the right of someone you do not like then you aren't for rights. You just support getting what you want.
Trump and many politicians say a lot of stuff. Obama talked soft on many things that he was not soft on. Trump talks big on many things he never actually does. What is done does matter more than what is said.
What was done here does matter. The politics of this whole things is complete nonsense. People that oppose gun ownership sound like 2A advocates. 2A advocates sound like anti-gun nuts. Why? Politics.
The other aspect is that one can get something that you don't deserve. It does not seem to me that this dude deserved to be killed. But also at the same time... it wasn't smart. That isn't justifying the action. If sane people don't point out what will happen in these situations more people will die. We don't know if this guy knew what he was getting into here. I believe the state is evil and I act accordingly. Many that hate Trump LOVE the state. They just want their dude at the top. Many people die at the hands of cops no matter who is president because the state itself is evil. Trump is also evil. Get rid of him and you haven't really solved the problem.
To me, we have a lot of people living in lala land. A lot of these people protesting are as foolish as the J6 people. Maybe well meaning but foolish. There's a LOT of daylight between the Trump line and the protester/activist line.
Not a really insightful comment for SN crowd (since we more or less already mainly think like this), but its worth mentioning that a helpful way to view the state is as a violence broker.
I don't mean a perpetrator per se, the state doesn't really have a will of its own, but more acts as a clearing-house broker that arbitrates violence between parties.
So, when Team A gets in power they hire Gov to perpetrate violence against Team B, and vice-versa.
The value-add that the state creates from a market perspective is "not going too far". So they help Team A enact as much violence against Team B that society can stand at any given point.
This is why its almost pointless to align yourself with political parties because >95% hold no real ideological principles. Its just whatever works at the moment....
Yep
Indeed this is the conclusion I have come to over and over again.
That said, one can change your mind at any time. But if team A thinks they have you in their pocket they ignore you.
I understand the argument and the richness of 2A advocates, like Trump /s, condemning the guy for carrying legally but this video said the two things I pointed out. Words, words, words, Trump can be a pedophile and wipe his ass with the Constitution as long as he appoints judges that are 2A friendly, words, words, words, this guy died because he was dumb enough to legally carry at a protest that put him into direct contact with agent of the state.
This guy said he only cares or speaks about the gun part of the situation but then immediately lays down the reason Trump is all good in his book because reasons. The video doesn't deliver on the stated point of the video. Noise and equivocation.
OK.
I have not watched the video yet but:
Don't go to stupid places with stupid people at stupid times. Bad things will happen, whether you have the right to be there or not.
Do you want to bet your life on the judgement of a 20 year old boy with a badge and a gun? Even if you are in the "right" you can lose everything.