I remember in the university many years ago we had an exercise where we tinkered with electrical meters. The mechanical one did turn both ways depending on the direction if the power flow. But that was more of a side effect of how the device worked, not some design decision. The digital one from that time did measure positive usage in both directions. I am not sure whether this was design decision... We only tinkered with the mechanical one, but we did test the digital one in both directions.

Does Muun plan to actually implement channels in the app?

I don't jave enough money to run desktop routing node even as a hobby lol :)

I don't understand... There is no way as far as I know for the coordinator node to destinguish hodl from normal invoice. And my app was running in the foreground during this time. This was the message:

unknown hash, invalid amount or invalid final CLTV delta

Is this really caused by hodl invoices? What exactly in the invoice throws it off?

I know you guys like Zeus, but I have had various problems from time to time (which I have written about here). My last problem was that somehow robosats rejected my wrapped invoice. I don't know whether this specifically was a problem with zeus, but it was yet another problem I experienced while using this wallet.

This is nit what I ment. The examples here are payment to keep active seeders. What I want is a way for client to negotiate payment for traffic. For example if one client downloads 13 KiB from another, i want a way for the second client to say 100 microsat per byte, and if the second client agrees, it starts sending sats and the second client starts sending bytes. After the 13 KiB is ttansferred, the total amount of sats paid to the second client should be 13000*0.0001=1.3 sats. Is this possible or complitely impossible on the lightning network? (I am talking whether the lightning network can do that. I am perfectly aware that there is not torrent client that does that.)

The problem is that if the large suppliers need to be paid in fiat, the merchants will not be able to keep the prices denominated in bitcoin stable. Their expences will be dependent on the fiat price of bitcoin, since the large supppliers need to be paid in fiat.

What is zcash?

I think a soft fork to enforce op_return limit in the consensus rules will be good and will stop this war.

It does do harm to my battery :)

I did, but thanks for reminding me to turn it back off now.

On Android would it be possible for the node to turn into persistent node automatically until the invoice is settled? That would greatly reduce the problem. And also why does turning persistent mode require a restart?

Also my channel got force closed by Olympus when I had not tried to send anything. I just periodically opened it to receive zaps that suddenly started coming in from another thread. Are there any typical situations this may occur?

Here's a wrapped invoice if you want to give me money :)

lnbc40n1p50jd86pp5mr3a8jnevcg2dm8w9kxtdcau3mykqfrzaz64l5vg785tukr8sp6sdqqcqzrcxqr8qlsp5uslhfarm3gxwdj9xprhhx2xvvx8qut8mqxpve82g34jcqcy83j7s9qxpqysgqxddelpjwadyh4acg6my4z9ljhsxjwa02y87j2d5rq78pjjhjfgz58w8tjdcsk50wxn8k4j8c2uq6ner4ew8xja2s86e0t5ch3rywyesptnkvwf

Well... Then it still doesn't work. I have channels with liquidity to olympus (only one because the other was nonconsensually closed by them) and blocktank. I am not sure if this makes any difference.

And I am using zeus mobile, currently set to persistent for the test.

I had trouble once upon a time with blinded paths working. Let's see if this is still the case. Can somebody pay this invoice to me:

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

No problem... I struggle to write all the information well enough from my phone. I need a keyboard...

Just a moment... Did you get force closed when you were paying a zaplocker user?Because my situation is the reverse (i was the receiver).

WTF is this response to a post where I am actually agreeing with you? I am trying to understand why my channel got force closed even if I can't have my full attention to this problem at the moment.

Yes, Olympus. Well, first I was online soon enough. Second, if i am offline they won't have a pending channel state change with me, that's why I think they can safely cancel. But even if I am misunderstanding something here, first point stands.

BTW I didn't know this is called zaplocker, but I remember reading how it works on zeus site i think some time ago.

Yes, not my node.